The English disease

Having given this some measure of thought, and as so many English managers on the forum now have foreign feeder clubs, my question is why?

If you want to adopt and abide by the parochial rules set out by having an English team, and settle for thalt corner shop mentality, that should be your bed and you should lay in it. Full stop.

If, in my opinion, anyone who is a manager of an English team they should be limited within the confines of this game to only having an English feeder club, with all of the rules regarding English teams/players/trialsts applicable.

It seems to me that English managers want the best of both worlds, as in they want to keep sky high prices in England, but also want the benefit of signing players who will probably never play in England playing for a team that they wished for, but is denied to them.

If an English manager is willing to take on a feeder club, in my opinion they should take on a smaller English club this would result in more competitave English League's.

It would also tempt people to take on a foriegn club as ther main club, and thus strenghthen other League's.

Why do English managers have the temmerity to demand ridiculous sums for foreign players, who play at foriegn teams simply because they have a foreign feeder club?

It should be fully one way or the other with no half & half grey area which we have at the moment.

Until this game is changed into an honest and even playing field, and remains divided with the insular corner shop ruling regarding England. I would suggest that if you want to stay at home above your restricted little franchise and are willing to choke on it, English clubs should not be allowed a foriegn feeder club in order to sign players who will probably never play in England.

absolute rubbish mate.

Sorry, dont see how this would improve the game at all. All this would serve to do is drive the price devide between the UK market & European market even higher.

What actually needs to happen, is the leagues available to manage in should be reduced. What is the point of having 2 people in Spain, 2 in Germany, 1 in Eire...what can be achieved here?. Other than total domination of your own country. Does it make the European cup the only target for you?...

totally agree the game needs to carry more integrity though. Will, surely you've got a decent view from that horse youre on?

Down in the pond with all the other scum, I'd like to offer my opinion.

I agree with Rich, dare I suggest a European Superleague.....

Who's upset Martin then

i think the problem isnt the english managers, i know for a fact, that if any forgien manager has a player that plays or just signed in england and they want to sell them... they will bump the price up for the english managers because they know the players they can sign are limlited... so this forces english clubs who dont have the huge supply of players to swap and huge amounts of cash to pay for a players who never played at the high level in england... so thats why managers end up going abroad with there feeder club and sign potential players thats that might sign for a english club.. OR we get ripped off.

i know forgien managers do bump the prices up.. because they tell me.....
im quite willing to sell a player for his re-sell because thats what he is worth... but if i sell XXXXXXXX for 5mil, but have to buy someone of the exact same quality for 15mil. why would i shoot myself in the foot, there for us english managers have to bump up the price of our players because forgien managers charge extreme prices.


swings and roundabouts.

at end of the day i think people look to much into the game,its just a game!!! i get my turn fill out ad send it...SIMPLES!!!

Phil@Arsenal wrote:

i think the problem isnt the english managers, i know for a fact, that if any forgien manager has a player that plays or just signed in england and they want to sell them... they will bump the price up for the english managers because they know the players they can sign are limlited... so this forces english clubs who dont have the huge supply of players to swap and huge amounts of cash to pay for a players who never played at the high level in england... so thats why managers end up going abroad with there feeder club and sign potential players thats that might sign for a english club.. OR we get ripped off.

i know forgien managers do bump the prices up.. because they tell me.....
im quite willing to sell a player for his re-sell because thats what he is worth... but if i sell XXXXXXXX for 5mil, but have to buy someone of the exact same quality for 15mil. why would i shoot myself in the foot, there for us english managers have to bump up the price of our players because forgien managers charge extreme prices.


swings and roundabouts.

quite bloody right Phil.

Phil@Arsenal wrote:

i think the problem isnt the english managers, i know for a fact, that if any forgien manager has a player that plays or just signed in england and they want to sell them... they will bump the price up for the english managers because they know the players they can sign are limlited... so this forces english clubs who dont have the huge supply of players to swap and huge amounts of cash to pay for a players who never played at the high level in england... so thats why managers end up going abroad with there feeder club and sign potential players thats that might sign for a english club.. OR we get ripped off.

i know forgien managers do bump the prices up.. because they tell me.....
im quite willing to sell a player for his re-sell because thats what he is worth... but if i sell XXXXXXXX for 5mil, but have to buy someone of the exact same quality for 15mil. why would i shoot myself in the foot, there for us english managers have to bump up the price of our players because forgien managers charge extreme prices.


swings and roundabouts.

Do not include me in that generalisation Phil. I have always over the years tried to help English clubs owing to the inequality of the English restrictions and I do not recall ever ripping anyone off.

im not saying you personaly do, but i know managers do, do it.

Phil@Arsenal wrote:

im not saying you personaly do, but i know managers do, do it.

i'm interested in knowing the identities of these said managers.........

As for the European superleague, whats the point of that? Surely the same as entering Europe. I manage a Spanish team who play in the Spanish league, and i'm happy with that. ok we haven't got the competition from managed teams but i know that if i win anything in that league with Barcelona then i have beaten the best team in the game to do so.

I do see where Martin is coming from, but i feel the best thing to do would be to make it a level playing field. Scrap the stupid English rule and also the 'offer' dealing code for the English where you can get decent players for stupidly low prices. Same rules for everyone would mean no more bitching but then again why would Paul do this as maybe it would mean people quitting their feeder clubs as they don't have the need for them anymore? So less income from the game for him.

i don't think any foreign managers unnecessarily 'bump' prices up just because a player has played in england, no more so than managers in england anyway. its been joked about before that if a player goes to an english club then you're quids in, though i guess you are only quids in if someone is willing to pay it...and thats the bottom line and also the sad fact of the english eligbility ruling. small pool of players and loads more managers than those in foreign leagues makes it incredibly tough and competitive for you guys and i feel for you, if i come to england i'd be pulling my hair out i think.

one example i'd use is pablo zabaleta. perfect example even. when i listed him last turn i said he could go for the most that anyone was willing to pay. if a club is prepared to pay almost double the tribunal value for a player and choose to enter a bidding war then that is their prerogative, they can pull out if they wish. they don't have to make a bid, nobody is forcing anybody to buy any player at inflated prices....its the market forces and the english rules that make it such i think. if someone had offered 12m for zabaleta he could have gone for that cos 1) that would represent higher than tribunal value 2) he is only rated as such because he is a man city player and 3) crucially, phil was more than happy to buy him. so no problem's their.

coming to think of it, he and Macheda are actually the only players i've sold at an inflated price to an english club, though Macheda's is atleast justifyable given his age and talent, as i rarely have eligible players and i can only recall my other dealings being Matterazzi (2m to Watford), Diamanti (4m to Arsenal), Maxi (free to Chievo/Leicester) and Armand Traore (£1 to Leicester) that i've sold on to an English team.

I kind of like Rich's post some way up here...and Tom touched on this...I think certain foreign leagues could maybe merged into european super leagues to shrink the chaffe in those leagues perhaps to make them ultra competitive. Or...my preferred option would be for Paul to maybe do away with second divisions in germany, spain, brazil and argentina and move any good players their into top division teams to keep the competitiveness up. Maybe even get rid of Serie C and move the feeder clubs up a level and fuck off all the unmanaged teams with no players that currently exist in Serie B.

hope you are all well fellas!

Interesting views on here.

Think Phil is right to a certain extent, however I think that it is sometimes lack of supply that forces prices up a lot of the time. The amount of managers now in England outweighs the number of quality eligible players available, and so any such players are priced at a premium. It isn't just some foreign managers that do this but also managers in England. Prices are a lot higher than they should be a lot of the time, simply because of the demand. Simple economics really.
Also, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but I find it a lot harder to review players in England than I do abroad.

Saying that though, I wouldn't swap playing in England under the current set of rules for any other club in the World. The competition is fierce and the players are at a premium, which makes it so much more challenging. As a manager of a foreign club too, I can see the difference in difficulty very clearly. If Bayern miss out on a top target, then there are endless replacements for that target. As there are only a tiny percentage of clubs outside England managed, most of the players are unmanaged. I can just scout a brazilian club and trial a player of equal rating to the player I was going for.

While I have been on here there have been a few managers say that the England rule should be abolished. However, I am yet to see a manager in England say it. It is always managers who havn't got a team in England! I, for one, am quite happy with the game how it is.

Not sure if it is the foreign managers all of a sudden getting competition for players from new feeder clubs, even though the competition compared to England is virtually nothing. Don't really understand the argument as there are so many players out there that a few feeder clubs shouldn't take up all the promising youngsters in the world!?

While I am on one, the reason I dare suggest a superleague is that personally I would like to see it. My Bayern team sums up why perfectly. Already they are too good for the German league bar one team - who are managed. I am 6 points clear of third, but 5 points off the top. It will take a few seasons to even be acknowleged by Jamie's superstars and until then I have no real competition. I know it is my fault for picking a league with only one other team in it, but I would like to be tested against other managers week in week out. Surely Matt, the title just comes down to who wins 'El Classico' every year? Wouldn't you like to play against other managers now and again?

you're right, there's certainly not the player shortage in foreign leagues as England so it certainly shouldn't be a problem . I like the new competition of feeder clubs personally, Serie C is already stronger than Serie B and that is the main reason the two should be merged i think. Demand for players in the foreign leagues is nothing like England and never will be, but its natural that with more feeder clubs from English managers sourcing talent in the foreign game with their feeders that prices overseas will also rise...but again, nothing in comparison to England.

There's always an abundance of players that can be picked up in foreign leagues dirt cheap, whereas in England you fight tooth and nail it seems for even a half decent foreigner that plays for Dundee United or Hibs. Really tough. Paul said previously to a comment i made myself about aboloshing the eligibility rule and he wasn't keen and said he did this in another game and it killed it within two seasons. Maybe the eilgibility ruling gives that different flavour to the game aswell, instead of everyone being on an equal footing. I can see how you all enjoy the fact that the english league is representative of real life so it should be kept that way, as much as i dread the thought of the prospect of managing in england, its a great challenge for sure.

i think that im probably 1 of the managers being mentioned here as ripping off the english clubs, but i couldnt care less, and these are a select reasons why.....

i recently tried selling silvestre, the price i was after was 6-8 million, and, a manager on the site winged at me saying that i was overpricing the player, so what, i dont really need to sell, and, imo, its not like im asking for the world for him really is it....

anyways, doesnt it go the other way around too????? i wanted to buy a player off an english club, i not only had to give i higher rated player with a similar age in a swap, i also had to pay x amount of money aswell, now is that fair??? no, probably not, but who cares, i didnt, its life, get on with it....

also, i didnt see any of the english clubs whining when i sold pizzaro for next to nothing, that was fine....

my final point is, when i want to buy a player to improve my team, its probably going to cost me £30million, how do you think im going to afford that if i dont milk the prices on players im selling???? also i think theres lots of good undiscovered talents in england that managers seem to avoid, if you cant afford premier league players, look lower down the divisions, im sure you can find a player that can do a job, or, if your not happy about the prices of players put on offer, then stick with what youve got, napoli inour division is a great example of not needing the very best players to do good....

all in all, im pretty sick of coming on this site and reading about the same old whinges, so i think im only gonna use the site from now on just to get my results....

ITS A GAME, REMEMBER!!!!

Gaz@Chelsea wrote:

at end of the day i think people look to much into the game,its just a game!!! i get my turn fill out ad send it...SIMPLES!!!

Have to say I agree with Gaz.

Guys,

I think people need to get back to the original post. This has become a debate between english and foreign managers now.
Why are people falling out over this?

I find the whole topic slightly funny, and maybe Martin was just having a bad day but all in all some good points have been raised.

From running the original forum i know pauls input is minimal and he is not happy about making a lot of changes to the game, I personally think he could maybe comment on a few posts earlier to maybe stop this arguing.

Lee, chill out mate, your whole answer is about english managers. Maybe you need to direct your anger at Phil for his comments rather than typing a massive reply to this thread and putting everyone in england under one group.
Also i would like you to tell me where all this hidden talent in england is? For someone who manages in Italy you seem to know a lot about us ENGLISH managers.

At the end of the day i dont see any ENGLISH mangers doing anything wrong and paul makes the rules and is obviously happy?

IT MIGHT ONLY BE A GAME BUT PEOPLE PAY GOOD MONEY TO PLAY IT.

Ross@ManCity wrote:

IT MIGHT ONLY BE A GAME BUT PEOPLE PAY GOOD MONEY TO PLAY IT.

Quite correct. I hate it when people (normally women) coin the "it's only a game" phrase when we get upset about football. well how about "it's only a pair of shoes or a hand bag".

We all pay to play the game so opinions and thoughts should atleast a little bit seriously, most posts are atleast somewhat constructive. though i tend to agree with Ross that they need to be taken on board in the first place and it's just a shame that Paul can't get online more than he does, though i do understand he is very busy.

we all got exceptions to the rule to highlight but in general the pricing in England is higher than abroad...this is obvious.

I have no issue with people selling their players for any sum they want, as long as its in the best interest of their club and not blatent cheating, with the movement of funds/assets from one place to another.

I have no issue with managers asking high prices and the reason for this is simple...

in England, getting a player that you imagine is going to form part of your club for a long time (and we all know how important stability is), is bloody hard, and 9 times out of 10, costs a decent amount of dough/players.

This turn is prime example.

I signed Asmir Begovic for £2m, and wanted him so badly I was prepared to pay £2.4m signing on fee. This I saw as having solved my goalkeeper problem for the forseeable future. As we all know, quality 23 gk's do not grow on trees.

Within hours of his arrival I had 2 or 3 other English managers making offers for him. At this time, I hung the 'not for sale for anything other than ridiculous offer' sign round his neck and thought no more about it.

After 72 hours severe thinking time, I agreed a deal with Rich @ Man U, and I'm sure you'll all see this turn, that he's gone to Man Utd for £11,000,000.

Now...ask yourselves 4 questions.

1) Do I believe Begovic is worth £11,000,000?

A. No.

2) Did I want to sell?

A. No.

3) Should I be criticized for "charging" too much for my player?

A. No

4) Is this indicative of the market in England?

A. Yes.


I am not running a cinema or restaurant, its a football club. I charge standard admission prices on the gate because I havent got time to negotiate with every fan entering the ground.

Transfers I have time to negotiate on a deal by deal basis, and will continue to do so for the good of club. I dont believe in selling players purely at buycost because 'thats what they're worth', they're worth what somebody will pay.

Negotiation is a skill, and is partly what makes this wonderful game what it is.

I also love looking untapped talent in England, its so hard, that the rewards for being good at it are excellent.

Will's constant production of Chelsea youngsters, and their subsequent movement to Chelsea, have been a good source of funds for Will in bringing the general standard of Fulham up. Should this be seen as extaution?..no..its good management.

If other people wish to sell players on the cheap, then thats fine, as long as they're comfy with the decision, and they feel its for the good of their club.

I dont think anybody should be taken to task over putting a price tag on the player...it may just actually be done because they'd rather NOT sell!

Ross, quite right. game it may be, but its a game I pay money for, and as such, Paul is providing me with a service, and its a service I expect to be able to comment on without having to apologise for having an opinion.

Will this result in falling out with anybody?. No. Im not that sensitive to people disagreeing with me. I think i'll rip Tom everyweek of his life until I stop playing this game...does that mean I dont like the guy?..no, it doesnt.

Speaking of Tom...Tom, I actually think we've found a topic we agree on. I dont like the European Super league idea...but apart from that, I thought your post was spot on.

Rich,

An excellent post mate and i agree with everything you have said.
A fina example of a decent forum post with no bitching and getting at any individuals whether they manage in england or abroad.

Role on the results and some positive chat

Ross.

poor Will cos im not that fussed bout the youngsters so thats his income gone lol Having got my chelsea team they are very small in numbers and im gonna struggle to do a lot with twenty million in the bank to increase it...i would be lucky to get one decent player at that price

gaz....how is the bank loan?

rich...will you marry me?

Cant Believe this,

I compleatly, whole heartedly, 100% agree with
both Rich & Tom

(the universe will now impload)

Gaz - Dam you lol!!!

everyone should click the plus their next to Rich's post and give him some reputation

14 millions stu

hes already got a reputation!!