The move to FAS

Something which Will has bought up in another thread thought might be useful to look at is the move to FAS. Will suggested that

Will@Fulham wrote:

Currently we're in danger of having every team in england playing the same tactic purely cos its clearly the best in comparison to any other.

On this (and its not just because I play FAS) but I actually think that FAS is becoming more popular because of the amount of quality TM in the game atm. If we look at this week there are 5 teams in the Premier League playing FAS. Apart from Newcastle (who as far I as can see don't have a World Class TM- correct me though if am wrong Mark?) the four teams (Plymouth, Arsenal, Birmingham and Charlton) have 4 exceptional players whose PP are TM (Rooney, Aguero, RVP and Tevez) hence the move to FAS.

If they had four exceptional CF with world class wingers then am sure they (and I could only speak for myself here) wouldn't be playing FAS.

In France for instance am the only one playing MIX (with everyone playing FAS) and getting some good results so far (helps having Ibrahimovic as a CF).

having quick wingers for instance and a decentish AM has allowed me to take good advantage of the flanks and ping balls into Ibrahimvoic and co. Helps having a decent PM too.

Just some thoughts...?

quite agree Ben, that having a quality PM is absolutely essential in my eyes.

I think the tricky part is getting a balance in midfield that allows the use of a PM.

to my knowledge, Will has tried everything to lessen the impact of an opposition TM.

I believe AM & BW is preffered... but to me, to utilise wingers and wing-halves properly going forward, you have to have a PM. Which means losing the AM or the BW and opening yourself up to the TM...

I think however that Gaz is trying something similar and is finding that he's fairly hard to break down, but cant get Suarez involved enough!

The point is, that world class players, are world class players, and they'll run most teams ragged alot of the time...

But Tevez, Rooney and Aguero will not score 4 goals every week. And they do here... not that I care about that right now! lol


I love that you cant have it all ways and that is realistic in itself. I have seriously toyed with swapping back to WHV's already.. but in the interest of settling things down, I'm persevering with FAS... but it certainly aint the miracle answer it's being portrayed as.

That's very true, although if you have a quality AM/BW then you can play AM PM then LH RH ST CF. If you think the TM must essentially always beat the AM to continue a move then if your AM stops this then that is where your main battle is.

Getting one of the quality AM though is at the moment a problem although are there enough world class AM in world football atm?

Victor Wanyama might be available for the right price.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/916860-man-united-prioritise-move-for-celtics-victor-wanyama

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/celtic-ace-wanyama-becomes-man-utd-s-top-target-3617511

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/celtic/9634725/Victor-Wanyama-rejects-Celtic-contract-offer-to-put-Premier-League-clubs-on-alert.html

Nice and opportunistic Tom (very Harry Redknapp esque) lol!

The only thing I would add to my post above is that it would be nice to ensure that DY's play a bigger part in FAS both defensively and offensively...?

Good debate. I believe AM + BW is the way to go in order to stop a TM or at a minimum it's potentially the most effective. The gap is that it clearly impacts balance. One system at home and one away? If you play FAS I actually think there are lots of options on formation.

Ben - I think a lot depends on who you play in each position. For example if you play Robinho at ST he'll probably look like a better option than Ireland but Nasri might have an equal opportunity as he's of a similar ability to Robinho. Also the commands can be very important.

Ok, since fulhams amazing effort of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory iv since had a chance to let the dust settle and stand back and look at things ( and put my dummy back in. )

My only concerns are , and it may just be a case of paul coming on here and telling us otherwise is

As far as I'm aware a TM can only be marked by a single AM, why?

It's the middle of the park, the most congested area of the pitch

We've played two weeks of the season and each week the top 3 performers have been the same 3 target men, yet there are many other top end players that I'm sure could dominate a game from an alternative position.

Again it's the middle of the park, this should be the easiest part of the pitch to Flood with bodies and squeeze out a player, and yet in the game only one player from the opposition can consistently occupy this space in a one on one joust.

I'm told that an TM cannot effectively be marked by a BW because a BW will naturally follow the ball all around the pitch - I'd like to think if I tell a player to man mark that
Maybe that command will override his natural tendencies and he will try and perform the task he has been given instead of doing a bit of a headless chicken act lol. - is this possible Paul?

Me and Tom today drew out a copy of the grid that we
Assume to be what the game is now played on - 5 x 5 squares I think it was.

And one thing u could see straight away was that if a FAS formation came up against a WHV tactic the fullbacks in the WHV tactic would have literally an open road ahead of them and a free run up until they got into a crossing area or came up agains the oppositions full back, in theory this would Allow the winghalves to drift into the box to give a 4 on 4 challenging in the box so the fullbacks could be running the show yet I don't think iv ever seen this Happen.

Just something that hit me as soon as I saw the grid.

Is there a command for fullbacks to carry the ball?

I Apprieciate this is all horses for courses and I think Paul's said many a time that sometimes the game throws out results and outcomes that still surprises him

One thing that made me laugh last night, as I was still stewing on my defeat was Alan shearer popping up on motd2 saying how city struggled to break west ham Down cos they were playing with the 3 forwards and were simply too narrow!!lol- cheers Alan that didn't help my mood

This isn't a moan at all, i love the tactics side of this game, it's the best part, I just don't want to feel I'm fighting an impossible task - not looking for help either just an assurance I'm not taking on a futile task

Ben@Plymouth wrote:

Nice and opportunistic Tom (very Harry Redknapp esque) lol!

And I thought I was the best salesmen on here lol.

Rob@Inter wrote:

Ben - I think a lot depends on who you play in each position. For example if you play Robinho at ST he'll probably look like a better option than Ireland but Nasri might have an equal opportunity as he's of a similar ability to Robinho. Also the commands can be very important.

Good thoughts there Rob, how are you getting on with someone like Di Maria etc as a Dynamo, is he getting in the game etc?

Di Maria does really well usually. 28 points and a goal from DL this week. 10 points last turn. Not bad when the TM also has Cavani and Higuain as options. My gap is that my other DY is doing nothing. This turn I'm actually going to give Hernanes a run out at DY and see how he does even though his positions are AM PM. Not sure what the issue is with Nocerino but it's just not clicking yet. Maybe a game at BW might sort him out.

You ignored footballs golden rule number 32b

Thou shall never buy from Richard medley.

Gaz made the Guti mistake, I thought u were better rob lol ......

Joking aside maybe he's just going to take a while to settle I'm having that with a few

Rob@Inter wrote:

Di Maria does really well usually. 28 points and a goal from DL this week. 10 points last turn. Not bad when the TM also has Cavani and Higuain as options. My gap is that my other DY is doing nothing. This turn I'm actually going to give Hernanes a run out at DY and see how he does even though his positions are AM PM. Not sure what the issue is with Nocerino but it's just not clicking yet. Maybe a game at BW might sort him out.

I have the same problem where by one of my DY's will get in the game, the other one often goes missing. I think the TM makes a decision on which DY is playing better and then ignores the other one especially if you have ST's who are World Class?

Will .... you might be right. Rich seems to break players.

Let's see how Hernanes gets on - his skills are ideal for a DY. Also thinking on bringing in Arturo Vidal who is probably the best BW in Italy for games where I need to go defensive.

Lol, good old Barry fry medley

Yeah exactly Ben, if you've got one, generally they don't get sold...

I'll have Nocerino back in a heartbeat Rob...

Rich@Leicester wrote:

Yeah exactly Ben, if you've got one, generally they don't get sold...

Very true, although I was after a more versatile AM and tbh I think Essien will never reach the heights he previously was at so decided to cash in now. In hindsight probably not the best decision but we shall see...

Rich@Leicester wrote:

I'll have Nocerino back in a heartbeat Rob...

I have another use for him. He might work out in more holding role,

I played him at AM where he was incredible, he didn't really work out at DY

I Agree with Ben, the teams that are adapting best so far to FAS are the teams with World Class TM's i should know ive had them all apart from Rooney! Lol.

But even you should know yourself will playing a TM doesn't solve all problems, you tried Robben at TM last season and he wasn't his mercurial best, Rich@Leicester isnt getting the best out of Nasri yet.

So it's not just the formation its more the Who, I played FLY last season because i had RVP, Walcott, Malouda in the Key positions but Malouda very rarely got involved and my CF was Bendtner so even when i did get the ball out wide i had no one to take advantage of it.

Now i agree to nullify FAS you use a AM lucky for me i have Essien and Diarra in my ranks! Which hopefully will help me combat the other class TM's.

Completely agree with this Phil, well said.

People are getting their knickers in a twist about the FAS formation, but only the four with top TMs are really having an effect.

I'm playing FAS at Nantes and despite having Forlan, I am hardly ripping up trees.

Some managers are losing sight of why these teams are dominating games and turning it into a witch hunt of the FAS formation.

The weekly points also mean NOTHING.

Tevez got 199 points this week....

what does that mean?, he means he touched the ball alot. That's all!.


Nasri got 71 points and was 2nd "top performer" in the championship... but if you read my match report... he lost the ball literally 80% of the times he received it. Granted, he set up my one goal brilliantly, but the overall performance was very below-par.

So dont read anything into the marks... just take it as an indicator of who is getting in areas to receive the ball, and who isn't.

My gripe isn't the individual players, individual tactics, its the fact that TMs appear to have their own allotted space that no man can enter barring a single AM.

Ill say it again, it's the midde of the park

What baffles me is that contrary to logic if I deployed an AL AR they would do even less than a single AM as the TM sits in the gap between them - correct me if I'm wrong

Paul, an explanation maybe of how the systems works with this may clear things up .

Even the best players in the world can get crowded out of a game. It happens.

City against west ham the other night , too narrow, too congested in the central areas, created little as west ham flooded the middle of the park.